The Two Popes Director Fernando Meirelles and Writer Anthony McCarten in the Corner Booth | Netflix

– All right, welcome
to “The Corner Booth”. This is really exciting. First of all, I loved your movie. – Thank you. – That’s good to know. – Fernando Meirelles and Anthony
McCarten the screenwriter. (bright jazz music) – You think you know better? – I’m Argentinian. How does an Argentinian kill himself? He climbs to the top of
his ego and jumps off. – You met him, briefly? – No it’s just shook hands.
– A handshake. – Did you feel something when you met him? – Totally, I mean I tried
to tell him that I was making a film on him. He really couldn’t care less (laughs). Just ignored me. – Had he seen any of your films? – It’s a film, it’s a big film, it’s Anthony Hopkins and he said, “Oh nice, nice.” Then off he went. – Speaking English is exhausting. – So how did this happen? Make the two popes? – I had this idea for a story. It had come to me when I was in Rome. I was in St. Peter’s square
and Francis was giving an opening of mass. In 2013, Benedict shattered a 700 year old tradition by resigning. – I’m going to resign. – Resign from what? – Probably the most traditional
pope of the modern era. Why would he do the most untraditional thing and resign? – No, it was shocking. I remember when that happened. That was a huge moment. – Popes don’t resign.
– Ever. – That’s one of the
defining aspects of a pope. They have to die on the job. – Forgive me, but… – But? – Where did you shoot all
the stuff in the Vatican? – So our main set was the Sistine Chapel. So we built a Sistine Chapel, a replica. Perfect replica in Cinecitta. – In Cinecitta? – Yeah, yeah, it was amazing set. Really looks like, the
textures, everything. – [Anthony] Five centimeters
bigger than the real center. – Yes, bigger, yes. The biggest Sistine Chapel
in the world (laughs). – If I was pope, I’d be in here everyday. – Ah, what else? – What? – Going into this, what was your desire for audiences? And for you writing this and the story. Did you want to change
minds about something or did you want to open minds?
– No, not really. – Was there an intention? – Not really, you really
just follow your own fascinations and curiosity
and that’s all I’ve done in my career is just,
I enter projects that I’m curious to know more about. What interested me fundamentally
about these two men is that they’re very different people. – So what matters is what you believe, but not what the Church has
taught for hundreds of years. – No, no, no, no. – One falls very firmly
into a conservative camp and one is firmly in a progressive camp. – Where you live is a criticism. Your shoes are a criticism. – You don’t like my shoes? – We know from their stated
positions that they’re diametrically opposed
on almost everything. To put them into dialogues seemed to be therefore offer the
potential at least to speak to the conversation
that’s happening at large in the world. Do we want a monolith that we all respect? Because it doesn’t change. Or, actually, do we need to be dynamic? Do we need to embrace the
idea of change and with all its inherent dangers? Because there’s so much
uncertainty with change. Dialectic if you like. Is at the heart of the story. – You think the Church is failing? – We are losing people. – Are those the fault of the Church, not of Western relatives
or more permissiveness, or what do they say now? Oh yes, anything goes. – There is something very
interesting because we don’t like to hear people with whom we disagree. And the film’s about trying and learning how to listen to the other one. – I don’t with any, well
most of the things you say, think, or do, but, now I can see it. – I don’t agree with you
but I could be wrong, and allowing that you could
be wrong is a quality– – It’s brilliant, it should be, yeah. – Quality we need in leaders
that they may possibly be wrong and be open. – I love the pizza scene. – Thank you, Lord, for this
food that we enjoy here in this place outside of time. – Amen. – Amen. – It’s good. – The idea that those two
popes are going to just, and having a Fanta or–
– Popes have to eat too. – I just love that because
you don’t think about that. – Well the Fanta thing is 100% true. The Fanta detail came
from the fact that during World War II Coca Cola was banned. Fanta was allowed. And he loved it as a child. And still drinks Fanta. – Do you have a favorite shot in the film? – No, I like very much the
two of them seated against the walls of the Sistine Chapel. – My favorite I think is
when the young Francis, he’s on his way to propose
because he was in love with a woman at the time. And then he received
a call to be a priest. And he goes into this big, empty church. And he saw a priest move in
the far, far distance towards a confessional box. And he goes in. And that dying priest that was there that day was the instrument
of the calling of this young man with flowers
in his hand who was about to get married. (speaking foreign language) – So, one last question for both of you. – Sure. – For you, how did you know
you were gonna be a writer? – I didn’t really, I fell into it. I just desperately wanted
to escape high school. And there was an
announcement in class one day that anyone interested
in a career in journalism should lineup outside the science lab. And I became a journalist
and started to write and just fell in love with words. – And do you have any
stories that you go back to that are unfinished? – Leadership seems to keep coming up. And I’m not quite sure why
I keep examining leadership. – Oh, there is the
calculation of leadership. A calculation we must both make. – Maybe because we’re so
dependent on good leadership. And we’re so in want of it now. – And what about you,
Fernando, is there something, was there a moment? – Well I was trained as an architect. And then I had to create my thesis, graduation thesis instead
of a project or monography, I decided to make a video. So I bought equipment to shoot my video. I don’t know why I decided to do it. I liked cinema. So I kept doing a lot of
video art and I had a group of friends that we start
working together and this became a little production company. Coming out of the school I was, accidentally I became a filmmaker. – I love this movie. And I’m really happy to meet you. – You too, thank you very much. – Thank you so much– – Thank you very much. – For coming by. – Thank you. – Thank you.

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