– I’m joined of course
by Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely. These are the guys that
traumatized many people by killing your favorite characters. So, welcome guys. – You’re welcome!
– Really a group effort. – Anybody else you want killed? Let me know.
– Gonna be this guys. – On the eve of ‘Endgame’, some big bold choices in that one. Was there one that you were most curious, like, would the fans go for it, would it work, what felt like the riskiest
choice in ‘Endgame’ – I think killing Natasha was the thing I worried about the most. I thought it was, and still think it’s really important. I think it’s the appropriate story point. It’s the end of her journey. It is the most heroic thing, getting the Avengers back, getting the world back, she had so much red in her ledger, coming so far and to make
this heroic sacrifice. But, you are killing the
first female character of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You could argue that there
are more stories to be told. Sounds like we’re getting one.
– Right. – But, we collectively said this is the right choice for us, and we will live with the consequences. – How far down the road did you get? ‘Cause I know you talked about you had a version where Hawkeye… – We explore everything, so at one point we asked “Hey, what if we did this?” – The math on the cliff would work. We needed two people who loved each other, one of them had to go over, so we had to try both. – And so, I guess my question is did you extrapolate from there? How would have that played
out the rest of the movie, did you go far down the road? – I don’t think we did, I think it was in outline phase, maybe. – Yeah. Basically it came down to is this a tragic beat or is this… With Natasha it’s heroic. – Right. – With Clint it would be heroic, but it’s mainly like, “Oh, that’s so sad, he didn’t get with his family.” With Natasha it’s like sort
of strangely an up beat, in that it is the fulfillment of her absolute heroism. – It’s not unlike Tony’s beat obviously. They both die for the mission. Hers comes at the end of act two as opposed to the end, so there are complications there, right? Because the movie is not over.
– Yes. – The mission is not over, and yet, given the rules of Vormir, written by us, right?
(Josh laughs) We got to do somebody here sometime, and yeah, more importantly it was we knew we were going to
escort people off the stage, and so her being a hero in this very private, but important way seemed appropriate. – Presumably it’s not
officially announced, we presumably judging by pictures of them actually making the movie, have a ‘Black Widow’ movie– (laughs) but I guess my question is, did you have to thread in any story points or references into this film about potentially future ‘Black Widow’? – Marvel is very good
about not stressing about what’s coming next.
– Right. – And about not sharing with us. – Well, about not sharing, but also they’re not, you know… If you wanna kill somebody or, you know, really dirty them up
or something like that, they’re not gonna go,
– Right. – “You got another one.” They’ll find a way. They’re not gonna change
their plans necessary because of it, but they’re not gonna blunt
the movie they’re working on for the sake of the
next one down the line. – Best story wins, yeah. – In your head, do you know what happened in Budapest? – Oh! – A lot of things happened past that day. – No, there’s not a
definitive one that we have. – (laughs) Just curious. I feel like the next ‘Black Widow’ movie should be called ‘Black Widow,
What Happened in Budapest’. – Yes, finally, people.
(laughing) – You obviously had a lot of real estate between these two films–
– Yeah. – in terms of just like the amount of time that Disney was willing to
go down the road with you. That being said, you have 30 minutes more of script running time in ‘Endgame’ is there something you didn’t, that you wanted to kind of would have liked to have explored more? You did an amazing
service to this ensemble is there a character, or group that you feel like– – In ‘Endgame’.
– you were wanting to go down? – I don’t think anybody got short shrift, to tell you the truth. There were certainly endless other scenes and sequences that we wrote. A lot of them got cut because we realized we were starting the story too early. We were visiting people before
the story had gotten to them. We were just sort of like, “What were they up to before
the movie got around to ’em?” – Particularly in ‘Infinity War’, we did that a lot.
– Yeah, there was a ton of it. So while I like those scenes, I don’t miss’em.
– Yeah. – And that’s the challenge
of long form storytelling verses a successful two-hour, in this case three-hour movie that’s meant to stand on its own. Right? Like I would love to tell you what Steve and Natasha, and Sam were doing after ‘Civil War’, but before ‘End’, bro,
– Yeah. – But, you know, its got
to be on stones, man. – Well, and the interesting
thing also for you guys now, is like you don’t have
a another Marvel thing on the docket right now.
– Yeah. – Who knows where the
future will take you. And so you can speak to it as fans now in terms of where it goes, and what you’d be interested in seeing. Like I’m curious like, we know like Shang-Chi and Eternals and Black Panther too, there are bunch of things that are in the pipeline potentially. As fans though, what are you excited to see? – I’m excited about all those ones you just mentioned. Particularly because I really don’t know those properties very well.
– Yeah. – So it really does put me
much more in the fan position. – Yeah, ‘Eternals’ feels
like ‘Guardians’ in a way. – Yeah. It’s exciting.
– Exciting for me, man. – I’m intrigued by what they’ll do with the things they’re
getting back from Fox. – Yeah. – I probably, you know, I’d go slow– – So what’s your advice? How do you weave in
‘X-Men’, ‘Fantastic 4’. – I’d go slow, and also, if you wanted to you could conceivably
take the ‘Avengers’ model. Again, this is pure speculation. – This is three nerds just talking. It’s all good. (laughs) – You could make solo movies, and then bring them
together as the ‘X-Men’. You don’t necessarily have to follow, ’cause–
– Pull back a curtain, and they’re there. – Yeah, we have had so
many models of the school, – Yes.
– Right. – the Xavier School. And while that is canon in the comics, maybe there’s another
way to think about it. So that you don’t wanna make
them just like the ‘Avengers’, but you also don’t wanna make them just like the movies that are running. – That’s the only thing I will guarantee is that Kevin is not gonna do it like you’ve seen it though already. – And then presumably, I’m gonna presumably see Kevin before this weekend is out. I’ll probably ask him the same thing. Like if a space war begins, presumably he’s already has in mind like what the next culmination, what the next major event is. – The next ‘Endgame’ is? – Well just knowing that like
you guys planted the seeds as early as you did for this one, is it ‘Secret Wars’, is it… Again, from a fan perspective, what do you think should be the next, major event that culminates a phase? – I honestly don’t know. Having just come off a big culmination, it’s not what I want to think about. (laughing) – That’s the last thing. (laughs) – My mind wants to get back to some individual superhero stories. – Yeah, right. I wanna see what Cooglar does – Rebuild.
– next time out. – One of the things that makes
Marvel work the way it works is there are mile markers
flung in the distance that they don’t
necessarily need to get to. They’re not, “Everything must march
in lock step over there because we need to have
the Beyonder show up,” or something like that.
– Right. – It’s loose. – And they have the
luxury of 20 characters you’re in love with that they can go down, along if they want. – That’s the thing. If they want to super conservative, why don’t you make simply
‘Doctor Strange 2’, ‘Black Panther 2’. Like they’ve got money in the bank. – Yeah. They got a
choice of what they want. – They’re using the capital. – You guys are so closely associated with the Cap storyline obviously, and we’re gonna see
‘Falcon & Winter Soldier’, for Disney Plus. I’m curious like, for you is it settled in your mind, as Sam’s Captain America? It’s curious they’ve called
it ‘Falcon & Winter Soldier’. – Oh, yeah.
– It’s not ‘Captain America’. – Yeah, I don’t know if– – As far as from your perspective. – In my perspective it is, settled in my mind that
he’s Captain America. That said, I don’t know if
one just picks up the shield, and is Captain America.
– Right. – It takes work on a person’s part to figure out who Captain
America is to them. Who they are as Captain America. Sam has been the Falcon.
– Yes. – He’s been a soldier, then he’s been Falcon. Is Sam as Captain America just Falcon with a shield on his arm? – Right. – What is the process that
he needs to go through to embody that?
– Right. What does it mean for him
specifically to embody a symbol of America at this time? – I can also imagine the
weight of that moment, when we see him in that costume for many reasons.
– Oh, yeah. – It’s gonna be a very powerful thing the culmination of that show or the next ‘Avengers’ or whatever it is. Do you think next ‘Avengers’ we see has a another word associated with it, like Young Avengers? – Oh!
– I don’t know. – Zombie Avengers, right? – Baby Avengers, right? (laughing) – Turns them into ‘Muppet Babies’? – Right.
– I’m in. (laughs) – I honestly don’t know. – He’s gonna zag. – It could go anywhere. – Who’s the hardest Avenger to write for? Who is your toughest, that you always have to like… – Natasha was tough
because she doesn’t like to emote all that much.
– Right. – Steve doesn’t either, but we’d taken him longer and we just had him more. – We know the history
that is weighing on Steve, – Ah, good point. – Natasha it’s all murky.
– Right. – Which is the attraction
of the character, but it’s also it’s harder
to pull things out, and make it seem fresh. – We tried, “Here’s a story, I’m gonna tell you from my past.” Right, it did not work.
– Right. – I didn’t want to know it, (laughs) and I didn’t want her to tell it to me, but we certainly tried it. – It felt like (mumbles) character. – It wasn’t in her nature at all. Yeah, so that was tough. – The Russo’s have eluded
to like one other Cap story they wanna tell one day, do you know what they’re talking about? – I might,
– I might. – There are great Cap
stories left on the tape, no doubt. Hell, if you had all the
time and money in the world, there’s a big montage in World War II in the first movie
that’s got stories in it. – Yeah. – You could bring back
all the Howling Commandos and just go to town.
– Right. – The thing about the trilogy and these two movies is we’ve always been
able to push Cap forward, and evolve his character. It would be fun, but I don’t know that it would
have the character weight that I’d like it to have. – Did you ever go down on
that road at all in talking, in terms of the two of you, and going to Marvel for like
something set in that period? – Oh, we’ve pitched them
‘Camp Lehigh’ series. (laughing) Wouldn’t it be great? – We’ve had a couple–
– 1970s. – of times in ‘Winter
Soldier’ and in ‘Civil War’. You tried to build a trope of flashing back to a World War II story that is coinciding with
the contemporary story. And I still love that structure. – Right. – It just kept being unnecessary. – Right, an embarrassment of riches. – It was an embarrassment of riches, and there was nothing being
conveyed in the past section that you didn’t understand
from the present. – You could tell when you cut it. If you cut it and it didn’t distract from the story, then that’s telling you can say. (laughs) – But it was always cool to put… Particularly when you have a character who is in both time periods,
– Yeah. – So you have Steve–
– You have license to do it. – If you have Steve Rogers
standing in a field in Germany that’s totally peaceful, and then you flashback to that same guy standing in field just covered
with blood and bullets, – Yeah.
– That’s amazing. – Yes. – There’s something to do there, I just don’t know what it is. – Your unique vantage point, I feel like as fanboys, and people that have culminated a, at least a part of a franchise, a part of a series, for ‘Star Wars’, I’m just curious episode nine– – You’re asking our
opinion on ‘Star Wars’? – ‘Episode IX’, they have
to end a 40 plus years saga, nine films, what do you think they have to answer, how would you even approach? – This is the one, I’ve lost track of the numbers, nine is the one that’s actually,
they’ve already shot it. – Nine is JJ’s second one. Yes, it’s coming– – It’s coming this Christmas. – Yeah. Well, I mean. – Oh, I don’t know. I think it’s so difficult.
(laughing) They have such the weight of my childhood. – You have a pretty tough task. – Yeah, but it’s all invented right now in front of our eyes in the last 10 years, right?
– Yeah. It’s not going back to
little Steve McFeely when he was six, you know. (laughs) – (laughs) He’s a dad, what? – It’s so fraught. (laughing) Yeah, they certainly don’t
need any advice from us, but I’m trying to go in there. – It’s an equally fascinating universe, they’ve got there. – Yes, a challenge (mumbles). – In general, I’d like
to see it move forward and not backwards, you know, like.
– Yes. – I would prefer not another Death Star. – (laughs) We’ve seen
a few of those, right? (laughing)